Ganey
Senior Member
5001 posts [100%]
Texas CORVETTE 77 385 C.I.
   |  CARBS Tests TQ/HP | 5:40 PM 2/6/2002 |  |
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TQ.......................HP.........
347 @ 4200 ... 361 @ 6100 ... Holley 4777 650 Carb Shop
338 @ 4400 ... 363 @ 6100 ... Speed Demon 650
336 @ 4000 ... 360 @ 6100 ... Holley 750 3310 JET Perf. TQ .................HP same +/-1
343 @ 5000 ... 349 @ 6000 ... Q-J JET Perf. ADAPTER used.
328 @ 4800 ... 351 @ 6100 ... Holley 600
329 @ 3900 ... 351 @ 6100 ... Edelbrock 600 1405
327 @ 4000 ... 350 @ 6100 ... Edelbrock 750 1407 324 @ 3900 ... 344 @ 6000 ... Holley 4180 Thought some might like this. If anyone has questions, everyone feel free to jump in & answer.
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GANEY CORVETTE 77 385CI 6.3L Hi-Perf. FE-7 Sus. ... SS 88 based Hot Rod
GANEY Corvette Forum Site .. Comp Cams Edelbrock Holley Dynomax
  www.kcm.org
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Tominator
Senior Member
234 posts [100%]
Clinton IA
| | Re: CARBS Tests TQ/HP (Ganey) | 5:52 PM 2/6/2002 | |
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This is really great info 
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76, mods; 355ci (350 hp Sealed Power rebuild kit) (Heads; reworked, shaved for higher compression, 10:1 compression estimate) (Edelbrock; performer intake and 600 performer carb) (Summit; 1800-2200 stall conv. and 1.6 roller tip rockers) (Exhaust; Headman headers, Super Turbo mufflers) (K&N air filter 14x3) 
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gdh
Senior Member
280 posts [100%]
Orangeville Ontario
| | Re: CARBS Tests TQ/HP (Ganey) | 6:29 PM 2/6/2002 | |
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That substantiates what a friend of mine said when he compared the Holley to his new Demon - about 5 - 7 hp gain, not the 20 - 25 that others have experienced.
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72 mille miglia convert.
350 4 sp
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mountainmotor
Senior Member
496 posts [100%]
| | Re: CARBS Tests TQ/HP (gdh) | 3:32 AM 2/7/2002 | |
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Quote:
"That substantiates what a friend of mine said when he compared the Holley to his new Demon - about 5 - 7 hp gain, not the 20 - 25 that others have experienced."Greg that pretty much sums it up on the HP thing but schools not out on how the cfm rating is reached as far as how the Demon is measured vs Holley and I especially in the last two years believe nothing a magazine article publishes.More like proffesional wrestling.Bought and paid for.And the typos are bad also,never know what they used as far as parts go when a motor build up tells of a flat tappet hydraulic cam was used and turns around and shows solid roller spring specs.Also the likes of the flow rates of Vortec heads that were supposedly stock out of the box.Rates I had to port the--- out of to achieveThey built a motor with drivability in mind then stuck a 2 inch spacer on top of a 180 degree manifold and allow how tractable the motor is..An insult of intelligience to say the least.Makes me wanta
I like Competion Cams stuff.Don't get me wrong but have you in the past ever seen a test using a Reed,Shneider,Ultradyne or Crower Cam? The tests above tell me that 650cfm was all the motor needed.The 750's used held there own because they were vacumm secondary and possibly tuned for that motor as in secondaries not fully opened.Who knows.
I want to see how the flow in cfm of a Demon is arrived at.Have never heard.Something is up when a carb needs 4 jet sizes difference to run compared to a Holley.The jets don't flow the same volume or something.
[Modified by mountainmotor, 5:55 AM 2/7/2002]
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ED DINAPOLI
Senior Member
763 posts [100%]
North Brunswick NJ
| | Re: CARBS Tests TQ/HP (Ganey) | 3:59 AM 2/7/2002 | |
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Ganey,
Any idea why the holley 4777 650 and the demon 650 make more hp than the 3310 750 holley? I would have thought that the bigger carb would have make more hp on top. I know that the 3310 has vacuum secondaries but they should be wide open at 6100 rpm and flowing a lot more air than the 2 smaller carbs. Very interesting information. I just switched my 3310 for a 4777 a month ago. I have not had a chance to test it out hard yet.
Ed
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ED72vette@AOL.COM.NCRS#18386. 72 TARGA BLUE COUPE L48, 4 speed, AC [original owner]- NCRS DUNTOV MARK OF EXCELLENCE AWARD 74 WHITE COUPE, 355 SB, 750 Holley,Victor jr intake, RPM heads[64cc],10.5 cr, Comp Cam solid roller[224 224@.050,.525lift], roller rockers, 3.0 inch side exhaust,Hedman headers,Holley Annihilator ignition, 4 speed, 3.36 rear.
Best 1/4 mile 13.6 @ 105mph
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Flareside
Senior Member
1228 posts [100%]
Roxbury NJ
| | Re: CARBS Tests TQ/HP (Ganey) | 5:25 AM 2/7/2002 | |
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Did they spend time adjusting the jetting in each carb for maximum HP and TQ? Sounds like a ton of work to do a fair comparison. Is it in a current mag?-Joe
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See my '68 big block -Fuel injected Merlin 540
-Richmond 5-speed
-F.A.S.T. Wideband O2 EFI
-SpeedDirect rack and pinion steering
 
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Ganey
Senior Member
5001 posts [100%]
Texas CORVETTE 77 385 C.I.
| | Re: CARBS Tests TQ/HP (ED DINAPOLI) | 6:43 AM 2/7/2002 | |
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EdYes. When the carb is properly sized, going bigger does not help. 
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GANEY CORVETTE 77 385CI 6.3L Hi-Perf. FE-7 Sus. ... SS 88 based Hot Rod
GANEY Corvette Forum Site .. Comp Cams Edelbrock Holley Dynomax
www.kcm.org
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Ganey
Senior Member
5001 posts [100%]
Texas CORVETTE 77 385 C.I.
| | Re: CARBS Tests TQ/HP (Flareside) | 6:45 AM 2/7/2002 | |
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JoeYes. The Q-J was at a disadvantage since an adapter was used. No.
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GANEY CORVETTE 77 385CI 6.3L Hi-Perf. FE-7 Sus. ... SS 88 based Hot Rod
GANEY Corvette Forum Site .. Comp Cams Edelbrock Holley Dynomax
www.kcm.org
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Alwyn678
Senior Member
5672 posts [100%]
Roswell,Ga
| | Re: CARBS Tests TQ/HP (Ganey) | 6:47 AM 2/7/2002 | |
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WOW.....thanks for the information....Very interesting..I figured the Hype on Demons was just that.....Clearly it does not justify the cost difference
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74 Stingray Convertible- 355..041 Heads(64cc), Blue Racer 284 Cam, Edel. Performer, Holley 750 DP,10.5:1 compression.TCI BREAk-A-WAY 2400 Stall Converter,Dynomax Headers.Delta 40 Flowmasters
SAAB Intercooled Turbo 900 Conv.... Daily Driver
69 Jaguar XKE VERT
 http://hobbystage.net/corvette/roadster
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Lt1er
Senior Member
802 posts [100%]
Reno nevada
| | Re: CARBS Tests TQ/HP (mountainmotor) | 6:55 AM 2/7/2002 | |
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I'm with mountian motor of the Demon carbs. My buddy here on the forum runs lean with 6 jet sizes bigger than my 750 double pumper holley. At first I thought maybe the Demon boosters do not draw as much fuel because of less air flow. I have determined that they just flat out flow more CFM.
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yellow 72
Senior Member
641 posts [100%]
cincinnati ohio
| | Re: CARBS Tests TQ/HP (Ganey) | 1:35 PM 2/7/2002 | |
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The trouble with most carb test/comparisions is they tell you max hp & tq at max rpm. What I would like them to include is how a particular carb responds to tuning and how it reacts to climatic changes etc. In other words how it acts at light and part throttle, where it spends most of it's time.
I really don't care about 7-10 more hp @ 8000 rpm on a street motor. 
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Gleese79
Senior Member
24 posts [100%]
Sydney, NSW, Australia
| | Re: CARBS Tests TQ/HP (ED DINAPOLI) | 4:38 PM 2/7/2002 | |
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the 650s would make more power than the 750 because the engine would be sucking the air in at a higher velocity.Chris
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mountainmotor
Senior Member
496 posts [100%]
| | Re: CARBS Tests TQ/HP (yellow 72) | 5:06 AM 2/8/2002 | |
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Yellow72,
Your post in part touches on what I was getting at earlier.They stick a open spacer on top of a dual plane manifold and tell that the combination would be great for street drivability.It would be a bunch of junk would be more like it.
I have seen many motors performance killed especially with qjet and open spacer on DP manifolds.
Seen vacumm secondaries get jacked with by the reversion pulses coming off the floor of an open plenum manifold yet Edelbrock still in part recommends the use of.They know better than that! Anything to sell a part it seems!In a street car this problem usually gets"drove through" rather quickley.In a marine environment it can actually hang you there with no gain in RPM.
Good thing we don't race or drive dyno's.They are short and would wobble.
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63Banshee
Senior Member
1441 posts [100%]
Southlake TX
| | Re: CARBS Tests TQ/HP (Gleese79) | 4:26 PM 2/8/2002 | |
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quote:
the 650s would make more power than the 750 because the engine would be sucking the air in at a higher velocity.Chris
I'm not following your logic, but the air velocity would be greater using a 650 if a 750 is oversize for a particular motor.
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L8r,
Daveaol IM: djohnsonARC
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SuperFast80
Senior Member
5374 posts [100%]
Toronto CANADA
| | Re: CARBS Tests TQ/HP (63Banshee) | 9:19 PM 2/10/2002 | |
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Ganey, what was the engine/setup tested?
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Ganey
Senior Member
5001 posts [100%]
Texas CORVETTE 77 385 C.I.
| | Re: CARBS Tests TQ/HP (SuperFast80) | 7:09 AM 2/11/2002 | |
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Engine on dyno. Dual plane - Edel. Performer RPM Intake.
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sharklover
Cruise-In III Registrant
Senior Member
1771 posts [100%]
Terre Haute IN
| | Re: CARBS Tests TQ/HP (Ganey) | 7:37 AM 2/11/2002 | |
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Why did they need an adapter for the Q-jet? My Q-jet fits my Performer RPM just fine without an adapter.
[Modified by sharklover, 9:37 AM 2/11/2002]
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Avery'79 L-82 4-speed
Performer RPM
K&N 3" filter
2.5" True dual exhaust, H-pipe,
Flowmaster DeltaFlow 50's 1/8th ET 9.33@75.11 (before exhaust)
G-Tech Pro 1/4 14.3@101 (before exhaust)
......................13.96@103 (after exhaust)
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MikeC
Senior Member
593 posts [100%]
St. Thomas Ontario
| | Re: CARBS Tests TQ/HP (sharklover) | 7:46 AM 2/11/2002 | |
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thanks for posting that Ganey,To me it looks like the qjet would be a real good choice to run since it was only down 2hp yet had approx. 15 more ft-lbs of torque.
[Modified by MikeC, 9:47 AM 2/11/2002]
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1978 L-82 close ratio 4 spd
Mods: Hooker sidepipes, Crane cam, Centerforce clutch, hurst shifter
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Ganey
Senior Member
5001 posts [100%]
Texas CORVETTE 77 385 C.I.
| | Re: CARBS Tests TQ/HP (sharklover) | 8:58 AM 2/11/2002 | |
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quote:
Why did they need an adapter for the Q-jet? My Q-jet fits my Performer RPM just fine without an adapter.
[ sharklover ]
AveryThe squarebore RPM was used. Evidently you have the Q-J RPM.
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SuperFast80
Senior Member
5374 posts [100%]
Toronto CANADA
| | Re: CARBS Tests TQ/HP (Ganey) | 11:19 AM 2/11/2002 | |
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Ganey this is almost as good a thread as your exhaust thread of yore....For reference: http://www.corvettefaq.com/c3/ganeyexhaust.htm
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sharklover
Cruise-In III Registrant
Senior Member
1771 posts [100%]
Terre Haute IN
| | Re: CARBS Tests TQ/HP (Ganey) | 12:06 PM 2/11/2002 | |
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quote:
Why did they need an adapter for the Q-jet? My Q-jet fits my Performer RPM just fine without an adapter.
[ sharklover ]
AveryThe squarebore RPM was used. Evidently you have the Q-J RPM.
Sometimes I don't think too well.  Yes, I do have the Q-jet RPM. It would be nice to know how the Q-jet compares when it is on the manifold that is designed for it but I guess that would have been a lot more work. Thanks for the info. Avery
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Ganey
Senior Member
5001 posts [100%]
Texas CORVETTE 77 385 C.I.
| | Re: CARBS Tests TQ/HP (SuperFast80) | 3:05 PM 2/13/2002 | |
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quote:
Ganey this is almost as good a thread as your exhaust thread of yore....For reference: http://www.corvettefaq.com/c3/ganeyexhaust.htm
SuperFast80Thanks.
Surprised there is not more interest in this.
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GANEY CORVETTE 77 385CI 6.3L Hi-Perf. FE-7 Sus. ... SS 88 based Hot Rod
GANEY Corvette Forum Site .. Comp Cams Edelbrock Holley Dynomax
www.kcm.org
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SuperFast80
Senior Member
5374 posts [100%]
Toronto CANADA
| | Re: CARBS Tests TQ/HP (Ganey) | 8:49 PM 2/13/2002 | |
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I am surprised too.  With all this talk of Holley vs. Q-jet vs. Brand X, this looks like the kind of information that could help make a lot of spending decisions. I for one am looking closely at the setup for the 454 I am building and one of the main items is carb selection and performance per dollar measures.I am surprised at the performance of the q-jet, given all the bad press it gets around here. From where I am sitting, it looks like a great selection for the street. 
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Smokehouse69
Senior Member
3753 posts [100%]
Victoria TX
| | Re: CARBS Tests TQ/HP (Ganey) | 9:02 PM 2/13/2002 | |
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As usual Ganeys got the good stuff, when it comes to performance info. Thanks for the info, I'm going to show this to a buddy who wants to buy new demon to replace his great running Holley, (he thinks he's gonna get 20-25hp, out of the deal.) I've been trying to talk him out of it.
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1969 Rallye Red 350/300hp TH400, A/C, PS,PB My Red 'Vette
Da Smokehouse
Steve Eddleman
My Homepage
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1979toy
Senior Member
511 posts [100%]
Wichita, KS
| | Re: CARBS Tests TQ/HP (Ganey) | 1:36 AM 2/14/2002 | |
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I must have been sleeping when this post started.
The dyno shows better numbers for bigger carbs than most of us would be happy with on the street I think. An engine can be eased into the range that data is collected on the dyno with any carb. While in the real world we would feel a bigger kick in the pants with a smaller carb.
I sure wish that I had the time and money to do this sort of extensive testing. It would be great to have 0 to 60 times for the same carbs. I'll bring the G-Tech and hand tools if anybody wants to tackle a project like that.
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Steve Mericle
1979 L48 Corvette - Red on Red - 350 Auto - 3:55 Gears - Comp XE-262 Cam and lifter kit - Cloyes True Roller Timing Chain - 993 casting heads, ported with 2.02 and 1.60 valves - Summit Full Roller Rockers - Fel-Pro .015 Head Gasket - Fluiddampr Harmonic Balancer - Edelbrock Performer Intake - Dual Flex-a-lite fans, with Painless Thermo controler - Hooker headers and side pipes - Earl's Pressure Seals - Accel Distributor, Coil and Wires
Still adding 
Always waving 
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sharklover
Cruise-In III Registrant
Senior Member
1771 posts [100%]
Terre Haute IN
| | Re: CARBS Tests TQ/HP (SuperFast80) | 3:29 PM 2/14/2002 | |
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quote:
I am surprised at the performance of the q-jet, given all the bad press it gets around here. From where I am sitting, it looks like a great selection for the street.
I've always heard that the Q-jet is a great carb, once you get it set up right. Any naysayers to this? If so, why?
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